[angpsi]

(...) In your sig you have a Benchmark DAC 1 and Meridian Explorer 2, these are both pretty good/great to start with so getting a better DAC will probably not be in the $400-500 range. The Hugo is quite a bit better than the Mojo even if the specs seem to indicate they are fairly close.

As I said on another occasion, second–hand Benchmark DAC1s go for about $400 which is great value if they match the performance of contemporary iterations such as Mojo et al. Only problem is that you need a USB to SPDIF converter for those; but given that these also seem to take part in the audio chain improvement discussion maybe they can be thought of as a good investment. Have you had personal experience with comparing these? Or am I better off sticking with my Meridian Explorer 2?

Overall, what would you consider in your opinion 'a higher grade DAC'—would that be Hugo, Bimby, or other—and how would it fare against a Benchmark DAC1 or similar vintage grade stuff?

 

[UntilThen]

Hi all, taking cue from the recent discussion here and on the Euforia thread about DACs etc, I wanted to ask your opinion on a possible upgrade path; namely, now that I finally feel happy enough with the Mullards in, I'm debating whether to get a Chord Mojo first and then look for a pair of Beyer T1, or the other way around. Looks like either of these go for around £450-500 but if I take the step it would have to be one over the other.

What do you think? (especially calling on @hypnos1, @pctazhp @UntilThen @mordy and all the rest of the crew with experience or currently experimenting on the subject)

PS. I've been reading through the original Elise thread these days, and there's lots of info which come through with the new light of actually owning the Elise! Plus, what fun to check with all the original agonies at the time of the Elise's birth!

My answer would be to get a new DAC and headphone together.

My next purchase will be the Gumby and HD800. Why do I want a HD800? Because after all these years, it is still the most futuristic looking of all headphones and I'd add the most comfortable on your noggin. It also sounds very good to me after hearing it twice at 2 Meets. The last audition was with Euforia. I must be one of the few that likes HD800.

 

[DavidA]

@angpsi, the watts output is not the only thing to consider, other amp features to consider is the output resistance of the amp, the voltage and even the electrical design type (OTL, Hybrid, and the various SS designs). I have had a friends Valhalla2 and compared it with my Lyr2 and to me the Lyr2 responds better to different tubes and is more compatible with the majority of my headphones, and the BH Crack is also a better sounding amp than the Valhalla2 IMO when used for high impedance headphones like the HD800 and T1, to be fair mine has different caps and tubes from stock.

Some amps and headphones just go well together, like the BH Crack and HD650/600, they seem to have been made for each other. I don't own an Elise but have heard it twice and compared it with a few different amps and headphones each time, granted the first was only with the stock tubes but the second time I was able to use a few different power and driver combinations and it does make quite a difference in how the Elise will pair with various headphones. One conclusion I came to is the Elise is too close to my BH Crack for me to justify its purchase, cost of tubes is going up way too fast these days and I have too many other headphones that didn't pair well with the Elise. I also got to hear some dream gear like a Liquid Glass, Liquid Gold, Teac HA-501, EC Balancing Act, EC ZDS, Liquid Carbon, Hugo & Hugo TT, MicroZOTL2, and a few others and since I'm getting older and my hearing will only get worst as I age as good as the high end gear sounds its only going to waste for me. I've gotten to hear and have quite a few headphones and as I stated earlier just like the different sound signatures but there are a few favorites: HD800, EL8-open, Ypsilon R1-(a better HD600 IMO), Nhoord Red V2-(a better HD650 IMO and to a few that have heard it), RS2e, HD700, and HE560. I've traded my SR009/SRM007mk2 for a few cases of really good wine and passed on buying the Liquid Glass from a friend so you can see where my priorities are.

One thing I think you should consider is the quality of the music that you use, most CD's are okay but after listening to some 24/96 FLAC of well recorded / mastered classical, jazz and blues it shows the limitation of CD's with some albums where I have both.

As for the Benchmark DAC I've only heard one a few years ago but it did impress me back then. For DACs I currently have a Bimby, Uber, Modi2uber, Teac UD-301 and Teac AH-01. I was looking at MHDT Pagoda, Metrum Musette, Teac UD-501 and the new Hugo2 as those on my short list.

 

[GangGang]

The Vallhalla2 is technically a great amp but it has a grainy dry character and lacks balls. The Bottlehead Crack isn't as technically good as the more resolving Valhalla2 and I even found the Vali 2(Smoother than the Val2) to be more resolving than the stock Crack with SB but the Crack just slams like a Mofo.

There's just setting magical about the HD650 + BHC paring that makes resolution nor matter, it just slams, has amazing liquidity.

I'm actually in the search for another Crack because the HD650 and crack paring just sound like real music. I still think the HD650 is the best headphone out there when it comes to it's combination of resolution, micro detail, smooth treble and tonal balance and tjay magical timbre. I much prefer it over my HD800, LCD-2 and LCD-3.

I think the Elise is better than the BHC but the BHC is much more musical, magical and id take or over the Elise and pretty much any map for enjoyment alone. A fully moddded crack is a better amp in all areas IMO

 

[aqsw]

I might not be too popular around here after this.
Not really a Schiit fan. I had a Bifrost and Lyr. Could not get rid of them fast enough, after hearing some quality dacs and amps.
Schiit just left a bad taste in my mouth (LOL). Maybe their new stuff is better, but I'm very happy with the dacs and amps I replaced them with.

My Bifrost was not a multi bit. That could be the major problem.

 

[SnapperMusicFan]

I have not heard the Chord Mojo, but you would be paying for both a DAC and an amp. With the Elise you don't need the amp. I have had my Schiit Bimby for a year and half and I love it (most of that time running it with Elise). At $600 I think it is hard to beat. And many think the lower cost Mimby is just as good. My guess is either would be preferable to the Mojo. And the Bimby is upgradeable for future. I feel confident that either the Mimby or Bimby would be very compatible with a T1. I had a T1 for a month with my Bimby (and Elise) and that was a wonderful combination.

The Schiit DACs are all designed by Mike Moffat, who probably is as knowledgeable about DACs as anyone, and unlike a lot of current designers, was a very early digital pioneer, having designed the Theta 5 DAC which is legendary. So if I were you, I'd start with either Mimby or Bimby and then T1. I know I shouldn't say this, but I think you'd be crazy to do anything else!!!!

Have to say at work I'm running an 5k iMac into a iFI micro iUSB 3.0, Mojo - Line level, into the Elise - current tubes, Psvane 6SN7 * Mullard 6080, sound is delightful, layered & dynamic, super wide soundstage,
outputting to a pair of Yamaha HS7 studio monitors, never thought Brubeck's Take Five could sound so good.

 

[angpsi]

Langrex's selling matched pairs of GEC A1834 6AS7G at £400.00 plus shipping. Just sayin'

 

[pctazhp]

I have both the Valhalla 2 and Elise. I did an in depth comparison about a year ago, but now with inability to search threads, I can't find it. The Elise is in an entirely different league than the Valhalla 2. Don't know about the technical side, but I would take the Elise over V2 any day - just no comparison.

I would caution giving too much importance to someone who has only briefly tried Elise. With the right tubes (and there are many good combos) it is highly musical.

I first became interested in high end audio in the early 70s. By the time I sold my speaker-based system and in a different life (if not a different universe) I had over $80,000 invested in my system. I hold 2 strong beliefs which I consider fact. First, the law of diminishing returns is very real. Second, financial stress will always far outweigh any benefit one might gain from chasing the "best".

I believe that any Schiit MB DAC, Elise and a good headphone like T1 or HD800 can provide years of listening enjoyment. Don't have experience with HD600 or HD650.

 

[angpsi]

I have both the Valhalla 2 and Elise. I did an in depth comparison about a year ago, but now with inability to search threads, I can't find it. The Elise is in an entirely different league than the Valhalla 2. Don't know about the technical side, but I would take the Elise over V2 any day - just no comparison.

I would caution giving too much importance to someone who has only briefly tried Elise. With the right tubes (and there are many good combos) it is highly musical.

I first became interested in high end audio in the early 70s. By the time I sold my speaker-based system and in a different life (if not a different universe) I had over $80,000 invested in my system. I hold 2 strong beliefs which I consider fact. First, the law of diminishing returns is very real. Second, financial stress will always far outweigh any benefit one might gain from chasing the "best".

I believe that any Schiit MB DAC, Elise and a good headphone like T1 or HD800 can provide years of listening enjoyment. Don't have experience with HD600 or HD650.

I'm a good Googler, or so it seems! https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread.782754/page-587#post_12438273

 

[pctazhp]

I'm a good Googler, or so it seems! https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread.782754/page-587#post_12438273

You are the MAN

 

[UntilThen]

The Vallhalla2 is technically a great amp but it has a grainy dry character and lacks balls. The Bottlehead Crack isn't as technically good as the more resolving Valhalla2 and I even found the Vali 2(Smoother than the Val2) to be more resolving than the stock Crack with SB but the Crack just slams like a Mofo.

There's just setting magical about the HD650 + BHC paring that makes resolution nor matter, it just slams, has amazing liquidity.

I'm actually in the search for another Crack because the HD650 and crack paring just sound like real music. I still think the HD650 is the best headphone out there when it comes to it's combination of resolution, micro detail, smooth treble and tonal balance and tjay magical timbre. I much prefer it over my HD800, LCD-2 and LCD-3.

I think the Elise is better than the BHC but the BHC is much more musical, magical and id take or over the Elise and pretty much any map for enjoyment alone. A fully moddded crack is a better amp in all areas IMO

Where gear is concerned, it's all subjective and you are entitled to your opinion. Not everyone will think that the HD650 is the best headphone out there nor everyone thinks that a fully modded crack is a better amp in all areas than Elise.

 

[UntilThen]

My Bifrost was not a multi bit. That could be the major problem.

I think so AQ

 

[Oskari]

Langrex's selling matched pairs of GEC A1834 6AS7G at £400.00 plus shipping. Just sayin'

Tempting. Must remain strong.

 

[GangGang]

I have both the Valhalla 2 and Elise. I did an in depth comparison about a year ago, but now with inability to search threads, I can't find it. The Elise is in an entirely different league than the Valhalla 2. Don't know about the technical side, but I would take the Elise over V2 any day - just no comparison.

I would caution giving too much importance to someone who has only briefly tried Elise. With the right tubes (and there are many good combos) it is highly musical.

I first became interested in high end audio in the early 70s. By the time I sold my speaker-based system and in a different life (if not a different universe) I had over $80,000 invested in my system. I hold 2 strong beliefs which I consider fact. First, the law of diminishing returns is very real. Second, financial stress will always far outweigh any benefit one might gain from chasing the "best".

I believe that any Schiit MB DAC, Elise and a good headphone like T1 or HD800 can provide years of listening enjoyment. Don't have experience with HD600 or HD650.

It's for sure a better amp than the Valhalla 2 and a next step in most aspects. I still think the Valhalla2 extracts plankton better than the Elise but in all other areas I'd give the Elise the nod. I really hope Schiit can fix the inherent dryness and make it slam like the Crack with the Valhalla 3(or a successor)

 

[pctazhp]

It's for sure a better amp than the Valhalla 2 and a next step in most aspects. I still think the Valhalla2 extracts plankton better than the Elise but in all other areas I'd give the Elise the nod. I really hope Schiit can fix the inherent dryness and make it slam like the Crack with the Valhalla 3(or a successor)

Agree about Schiit needing to fix the dryness and improve slam. Time will tell. I haven't used V2 much in over a year since Elise arrived, and yet I haven't quite gotten around to selling it. So I assume it will still be with me if and when it can be upgraded.